What scene would you change? What flaws have you found?

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What scene would you change? What flaws have you found?

Postby MR-SigS » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:15 pm

You love the film, but there's just something not right about a scene or a line of dialogue. If you could go back and suggest an idea to the director or screenwriter, what would it be?
Or if you noticed a major flaw with something in a film, what was it?

One line that always bothered me in Monty Python and the Holy Grail was when the limbless Black Knight shouted to a departing King Arthur, "Oh, oh! Running away, eh? YOU YELLOW BASTARD! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!"

That just seemed redundant due to what had just happened. I always felt he should have said, "I'll bite your balls off!"
I mean, he's already down there so...


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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby bosco685 » Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:11 am

What a great topic!

:clapping:

I really like the 'Man of Steel' movie, and have watched it at least 8-10 times now. To finally have a movie where Superman's power could truly be challenged was just a fantastic experience. And sure, Zod and crew appeared in the Lester/Donnor 'Superman II' movie from 1980. But it was nothing like this version, where you could tell Zod would go all-out to achieve his goals. But there were a couple of scenes I felt could be slightly different.

1) Jonathan Kent's death: I realize Jonathan had instilled the belief in his adopted son he was never to reveal his power until the right time came. Even if this meant someone on the edge of death. But I feel like the character of Clark also has some strong respect for life, this would have overroad any restraint to take action. Having him save him, no matter if he was exposed, would have been an interesting turn of events. Especially if this caused a temporary rift between them because Clark failed to respect his wishes.

2) Metropolis destruction: It is now clear all that destruction may have been for a longer purpose, and that other characters will factor this into their feelings towards Superman based on what occurred (Aquaman due to the damaged done to the ocean from the World Engine, Bruce Wayne because of his concern over such immeasurable power, Lex Luthor because of his fear of alien invasion, and potentially Metallo due to the loss of his human legs leading to who he becomes). But I really feel like Superman should have shown a little more regret during all that destruction. Such a threat to the people of his adopted planet would have troubled him throughout. But in certain fight scenes, it appears he is so focused on the fight, you don't really get the feeling the destruction is bothering him. Not until that later scene when Zod is about to fry the family trapped in the corner of the train station due you truly see his concern, and to go as far as having to kill Zod to stop such massively and deadly destruction. Zod made it clear he was never going to stop until one of them was dead, which was very clear this then forced Superman's hand.

Now as far as Superman killing Zod, people need to take some things into consideration. Zod made it clear there was only ever going to be one end: either he was dead of Superman was dead. There was no in-between with this situation. Superman taking the action that he did demonstrated he had dismissed his Kryptonian background for the sake of the greater good, which to me was very heroic and Superman-like.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby MR-SigS » Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:44 am

bosco685 wrote:What a great topic!

:clapping:
Thanks
:-D

I really like the 'Man of Steel' movie, and have watched it at least 8-10 times now. To finally have a movie where Superman's power could truly be challenged was just a fantastic experience. And sure, Zod and crew appeared in the Lester/Donnor 'Superman II' movie from 1980. But it was nothing like this version, where you could tell Zod would go all-out to achieve his goals. But there were a couple of scenes I felt could be slightly different.

1) Jonathan Kent's death: I realize Jonathan had instilled the belief in his adopted son he was never to reveal his power until the right time came. Even if this meant someone on the edge of death. But I feel like the character of Clark also has some strong respect for life, this would have overroad any restraint to take action. Having him save him, no matter if he was exposed, would have been an interesting turn of events. Especially if this caused a temporary rift between them because Clark failed to respect his wishes.

I agree. It also didn't make any sense that Pa Kent stayed behind to save the dog. Was he worried that Clark would get injured? I know he wanted his wife taken to safety, but it just felt wrong.

2) Metropolis destruction: It is now clear all that destruction may have been for a longer purpose, and that other characters will factor this into their feelings towards Superman based on what occurred (Aquaman due to the damaged done to the ocean from the World Engine, Bruce Wayne because of his concern over such immeasurable power, Lex Luthor because of his fear of alien invasion, and potentially Metallo due to the loss of his human legs leading to who he becomes). But I really feel like Superman should have shown a little more regret during all that destruction. Such a threat to the people of his adopted planet would have troubled him throughout. But in certain fight scenes, it appears he is so focused on the fight, you don't really get the feeling the destruction is bothering him. Not until that later scene when Zod is about to fry the family trapped in the corner of the train station due you truly see his concern, and to go as far as having to kill Zod to stop such massively and deadly destruction. Zod made it clear he was never going to stop until one of them was dead, which was very clear this then forced Superman's hand.

He showed far more concern in Superman II, something Zod noticed and exploited.

Now as far as Superman killing Zod, people need to take some things into consideration. Zod made it clear there was only ever going to be one end: either he was dead of Superman was dead. There was no in-between with this situation. Superman taking the action that he did demonstrated he had dismissed his Kryptonian background for the sake of the greater good, which to me was very heroic and Superman-like.

Yep. Were we supposed to think Zod survived in Superman II? Even if the fall (landing) didn't kill him, they left them for dead. To say we didn't actually see Zod and Co. die is silly.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby bosco685 » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:41 pm

But don't get me wrong. I still feel 'Man of Steel' is a great comic book movie. I just wish those parts of the movie had been adjusted enough to address these two items.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby MR-SigS » Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:53 am

In the Avengers, when Hawkeye is speaking with Iron Man via comlink, he shoots an arrow and bullseyes a Chitauri without looking. I had to roll my eyes at that one :roll:

He's Hawkeye, not Hawkear.

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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby bosco685 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:31 am

:lol:

The Amazing Avengers are a little too amazing at times.

How about DR Banner showing up on a motorcycle exactly at the location where his teammates are battling? Like he had team radar on.

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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby MR-SigS » Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:14 pm

And he must have forcefully stole the keys from the owner, unless Harry Dean Stanton gave him that along with the clothes.

And Loki's line, "Oh, no. You brought the monster," revealed his master plan.

I did like the film, though :lol: But GOTG was far better, fwiw.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby IronMan » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:04 am

The ending of the Watchmen. After sticking almost astonishingly close to the comic book the entire movie, then they change the ending. I think the comic book ending was both better and made more sense. If Dr. Manhattan had gone daft and killed millions of people around the world - the world would be united in it's anger at America as much as Dr. Manhattan. The entire "alien invasion" idea - where only America had suffered the initial attack - would be much more unifying an event for the entire world.

The ending in the comic book was also much more satisfying as far as Manhattan's leaving earth. The only thing left on earth that interested him was Jupiter. Now that she was in a relationship Dreiberg, he was free to leave and find his own destiny among the stars.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby MR-SigS » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:27 am

I understand what you mean, but Ozymandias was banking on the world's fear that if any country acted naughty again, he'd punish them again. That, since Manhattan "attacked" the whole world, it would seem he broke all ties with America. Which is of course what Rorschach's journal was going to expose.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby bosco685 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:08 am

IronMan wrote:The ending of the Watchmen. After sticking almost astonishingly close to the comic book the entire movie, then they change the ending. I think the comic book ending was both better and made more sense. If Dr. Manhattan had gone daft and killed millions of people around the world - the world would be united in it's anger at America as much as Dr. Manhattan. The entire "alien invasion" idea - where only America had suffered the initial attack - would be much more unifying an event for the entire world.

The ending in the comic book was also much more satisfying as far as Manhattan's leaving earth. The only thing left on earth that interested him was Jupiter. Now that she was in a relationship Dreiberg, he was free to leave and find his own destiny among the stars.


Although I am a fan of the original series, I think using a giant squid at the end of the movie may have become a running joke (e.g. Killer Calamari). The way the movie ended adjusted for modern sensitivies where terrorist activity and sabotage are more believable. Even if this is part of a superhero movie, which has to contain some boundries to be believable.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby MR-SigS » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:39 am

Raiders of the Lost Ark:

When the two G-Men pay a visit to Jones at the University and ask what the Ark looks like. he just happens to have a giant book with a picture, and he opens the book right where it is. C'mon, at least have him look for the book on a shelf and thumb through a couple pages :lol:
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby MR-SigS » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:40 am

Iron Man 3.































:popcorn:
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby bosco685 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:46 am

MR-SigS wrote:Iron Man 3.
:popcorn:


That's just instigation, and you know it!

:poke2:

Imagine if they had gone with Tony Stark rocketing towards The Mandarin to take him into custody. Then, Ben Kingsley strikes out at Tony's armor just as he comes within range. Next thing you know, Iron Man goes flying back and hits the ground. When he finally stands up, and looks down at the cracks in his armor, he realized there is a new game afoot, and he has one heck of a fight ahead of him.

That's the Mandarin I wanted to see.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby bosco685 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:50 am

Even the 60's cartoon understood The Mandarin better than Iron Man 3.

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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby IronMan » Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:59 pm

Yeah, but in the 1960's China wasn't a huge market for US movies and some sinister, yellow skinned claw handed stereotype wasn't going to make it past the Chinese censors. IM 3 sold 124 million dollars worth of tickets in China.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby IronMan » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:05 pm

bosco685 wrote:
IronMan wrote:The ending of the Watchmen. After sticking almost astonishingly close to the comic book the entire movie, then they change the ending. I think the comic book ending was both better and made more sense. If Dr. Manhattan had gone daft and killed millions of people around the world - the world would be united in it's anger at America as much as Dr. Manhattan. The entire "alien invasion" idea - where only America had suffered the initial attack - would be much more unifying an event for the entire world.

The ending in the comic book was also much more satisfying as far as Manhattan's leaving earth. The only thing left on earth that interested him was Jupiter. Now that she was in a relationship Dreiberg, he was free to leave and find his own destiny among the stars.


Although I am a fan of the original series, I think using a giant squid at the end of the movie may have become a running joke (e.g. Killer Calamari). The way the movie ended adjusted for modern sensitivies where terrorist activity and sabotage are more believable. Even if this is part of a superhero movie, which has to contain some boundries to be believable.


They could have made the "alien" look like anything they wanted. Dr. Manhattan was America's super weapon - openly touted in the movie and the comics as the edge that let America reign supreme on the world stage. If Manhattan went rogue and killed millions around the world - not just America - the world might indeed be united for a while. United against the USA - not against Manhattan who has left the solar system and clearly out of our reach.

And who says an alien invasion isn't believable among movie goers? A long list of those movies, many successful.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby bosco685 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:38 pm

IronMan wrote:And who says an alien invasion isn't believable among movie goers? A long list of those movies, many successful.


'Independence Day' was not what Snyder was going after. He was following the model Moore had created where these heroes were part of our established history. So he was blending their fictional backgrounds with our reality in a wonderful way, without taking it to the super-extreme.

I actually enjoyed the Director's Cut with additional footage, as the story really comes together.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby bosco685 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:42 pm

IronMan wrote:Yeah, but in the 1960's China wasn't a huge market for US movies and some sinister, yellow skinned claw handed stereotype wasn't going to make it past the Chinese censors. IM 3 sold 124 million dollars worth of tickets in China.


I think you missed my point. I didn't suggest Ben Kingsley becomes some Charlie Chan knockoff, made up as a caucasian Oriental.

I'm talking about the dangerous display of power The Mandarin brought to every appearance, and especially when he could throw Iron Man with his bare hands.

---------------------
The Mandarin is a superb athlete with tremendous skill in the various martial arts. Through repeated practice, he has toughened all the striking surfaces of his body, especially his hands, which are covered with thick calluses. He can even split Iron Man's magnetic-beam reinforced alloy armor with repeated blows. So great is the Mandarin's martial arts ability, that he can even survive years without food and water, apparently sustaining himself purely via his mastery of chi.
---------------------

See what I mean?
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby IronMan » Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:20 pm

bosco685 wrote:
IronMan wrote:Yeah, but in the 1960's China wasn't a huge market for US movies and some sinister, yellow skinned claw handed stereotype wasn't going to make it past the Chinese censors. IM 3 sold 124 million dollars worth of tickets in China.


I think you missed my point. I didn't suggest Ben Kingsley becomes some Charlie Chan knockoff, made up as a caucasian Oriental.

I'm talking about the dangerous display of power The Mandarin brought to every appearance, and especially when he could throw Iron Man with his bare hands.

---------------------
The Mandarin is a superb athlete with tremendous skill in the various martial arts. Through repeated practice, he has toughened all the striking surfaces of his body, especially his hands, which are covered with thick calluses. He can even split Iron Man's magnetic-beam reinforced alloy armor with repeated blows. So great is the Mandarin's martial arts ability, that he can even survive years without food and water, apparently sustaining himself purely via his mastery of chi.
---------------------

See what I mean?


Yes, I do. The Mandarin you describe would indeed have been a more worthy opponent in the movie
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby MR-SigS » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:35 am

bosco685 wrote:
MR-SigS wrote:Iron Man 3.
:popcorn:


That's just instigation, and you know it!

:poke2:

:peek: Guilty :peek:

bosco685 wrote:Imagine if they had gone with Tony Stark rocketing towards The Mandarin to take him into custody. Then, Ben Kingsley strikes out at Tony's armor just as he comes within range. Next thing you know, Iron Man goes flying back and hits the ground. When he finally stands up, and looks down at the cracks in his armor, he realized there is a new game afoot, and he has one heck of a fight ahead of him.

That's the Mandarin I wanted to see.


That would have been nice :rockout:
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby MR-SigS » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:20 pm

Star Trek (1st of the latest). Or even the 2nd one, for that matter.

Because Nero's appearance changed everything, and Kirk turned out more of a wise ass and trouble maker, I thought there should have been a reference of some kind to him and Finnegan raising Hell, but this time as friends.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby bosco685 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:02 pm

MR-SigS wrote:Star Trek (1st of the latest). Or even the 2nd one, for that matter.

Because Nero's appearance changed everything, and Kirk turned out more of a wise ass and trouble maker, I thought there should have been a reference of some kind to him and Finnegan raising Hell, but this time as friends.

Great point!

Wasn't that supposed to be Finnegan walking on the dirt road as a kid when Jim steals his step-dad's car and rockets by him? I think that was one of the few flaws with the J.J. Abrams movies is because he was not a long-time fan of the series, he didn't pick up on 'historical details like that and plug them even as easter eggs.

But they did get a lot of things right in these movies too. And thank goodness for that.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby MR-SigS » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:48 am

bosco685 wrote:
MR-SigS wrote:Star Trek (1st of the latest). Or even the 2nd one, for that matter.

Because Nero's appearance changed everything, and Kirk turned out more of a wise ass and trouble maker, I thought there should have been a reference of some kind to him and Finnegan raising Hell, but this time as friends.

Great point!

Wasn't that supposed to be Finnegan walking on the dirt road as a kid when Jim steals his step-dad's car and rockets by him? I think that was one of the few flaws with the J.J. Abrams movies is because he was not a long-time fan of the series, he didn't pick up on 'historical details like that and plug them even as easter eggs.

But they did get a lot of things right in these movies too. And thank goodness for that.


According to the deleted scenes the boy is Kirk's older brother Tommy, running away from home. I guess their mother was right, that she can't "do this alone". It seems she remarried a jackass that both boys can't stand. The car that Kirk was driving wasn't the Step-Father's, it was his father's (Lt. Cmdr. George Kirk).

This is a major goof on Abrams' part because just a tiny bit of research would have taught him that Kirk's brother is George Samuel Kirk (James always called him Sam). And since he's older, his name should not have been affected by Nero's interference.

And where was he during Nero's attack on the USS Kelvin? Why does a new reality give Carol Marcus a British accent (not to mention Khan)?

It is a shame Abrams didn't do the simple research. He should have known that fans would scrutinize the details. I also think it's a shame that he felt he had to do another Khan film. In the richness of the Star Trek universe, he has a treasure trove of material to reintroduce.
I, myself, was hoping for a "Gary Mitchell" film. Not a time altered Mitchell, but the SAME Gary Mitchell that Shatner "killed" at the end of TOS 1st episode (2nd Pilot) "Where no man has gone before". I felt Mitchell was too powerful to be killed simply by being squished by a massive boulder, that it would have been more of a minor set back as he morphed into the next stage of his "godhood".
Gary, so powerful that altered realities have no effect on him, seeks revenge and searches for Kirk, finding him in the new timeline. The "new" Kirk of course has no memory of the original events. Maybe there could have been a time-altered Gary as well, adding to Kirk's confusion, "Hey Gary. Haven't seen you since graduation. Say, what's wrong with your eyes?"

Something like that.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby MR-SigS » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:41 pm

Star Trek: First Contact.

Phasers work against The Borg, but only for a short time. But bullets keep on working just fine.

Um, hello Starfleet.
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Re: What scene or line would you change?

Postby IronMan » Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:35 pm

MR-SigS wrote:Star Trek: First Contact.

Phasers work against The Borg, but only for a short time. But bullets keep on working just fine.

Um, hello Starfleet.


I guess it is hard to be resistant to holes in you :lol:
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