CBCS and Micro Chamber Paper

General discussion about CBCS Grading.
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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Youmechoose » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:04 pm

DiceX wrote:CBCS will not be using microchamber paper as the material used for our inner sleeves is in the Mylar family. Being a Mylar product, they will not off-gas which eliminates the need for microchamber paper.
Your books will be well preserved for decades as long as they are stored in optimal conditions.

So a book in a mylite with fullback/halfback doesnt need microchamber paper?



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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Hero Restoration » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:43 am

DiceX wrote:CBCS will not be using microchamber paper as the material used for our inner sleeves is in the Mylar family. Being a Mylar product, they will not off-gas which eliminates the need for microchamber paper.
Your books will be well preserved for decades as long as they are stored in optimal conditions.


Hi Steve, :flowery: could you provide additional clarification about this statement. When you say "they will not off-gas" is "they" referring to the well, or the pages? I am trying to understand the chemistry of all the different variables that go into a slabbed book, and the more I dig, the more confused I get.

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby IronMan » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:16 am

Off gassing is a result of newspaper slowly decaying. The decay being a natural result of newsprint being made from wood pulp. Since the lignin in wood pulp is not chemically removed from newprint like it is from better, more archival paper products, newsprint naturally degrades - especially if exposed to heat/air/light.

It has always been the subject of some controversy as to whether or not microchamber paper offers any real archival benefit. When all is said and done, proper storage of your books (temperature and humidity controlled) is more important than just about anything else the average person can do.
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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Youmechoose » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:02 am

IronMan wrote:Off gassing is a result of newspaper slowly decaying. The decay being a natural result of newsprint being made from wood pulp. Since the lignin in wood pulp is not chemically removed from newprint like it is from better, more archival paper products, newsprint naturally degrades - especially if exposed to heat/air/light.

It has always been the subject of some controversy as to whether or not microchamber paper offers any real archival benefit. When all is said and done, proper storage of your books (temperature and humidity controlled) is more important than just about anything else the average person can do.

But thats the question. Is there any concrete proof microchamber paper is needed? I hear more answers of yes than no. I am super lazy today and just need cliff's notes.

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby DiceX » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:22 am

By "they" I mean the inner holder.

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby DrWatson » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:44 am

Youmechoose wrote:
IronMan wrote:Off gassing is a result of newspaper slowly decaying. The decay being a natural result of newsprint being made from wood pulp. Since the lignin in wood pulp is not chemically removed from newprint like it is from better, more archival paper products, newsprint naturally degrades - especially if exposed to heat/air/light.

It has always been the subject of some controversy as to whether or not microchamber paper offers any real archival benefit. When all is said and done, proper storage of your books (temperature and humidity controlled) is more important than just about anything else the average person can do.

But thats the question. Is there any concrete proof microchamber paper is needed? I hear more answers of yes than no. I am super lazy today and just need cliff's notes.

Is there any concrete proof microchamber paper is needed? Well, how about proof that it is not needed? That would be every book that currently has white pages that has not been stored with even a shred of microchamber paper since the day it was printed.

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Youmechoose » Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:44 pm

DrWatson wrote:
Youmechoose wrote:
IronMan wrote:Off gassing is a result of newspaper slowly decaying. The decay being a natural result of newsprint being made from wood pulp. Since the lignin in wood pulp is not chemically removed from newprint like it is from better, more archival paper products, newsprint naturally degrades - especially if exposed to heat/air/light.

It has always been the subject of some controversy as to whether or not microchamber paper offers any real archival benefit. When all is said and done, proper storage of your books (temperature and humidity controlled) is more important than just about anything else the average person can do.

But thats the question. Is there any concrete proof microchamber paper is needed? I hear more answers of yes than no. I am super lazy today and just need cliff's notes.

Is there any concrete proof microchamber paper is needed? Well, how about proof that it is not needed? That would be every book that currently has white pages that has not been stored with even a shred of microchamber paper since the day it was printed.

There are definitely examples of books that have stood the test of time. On the flip side, there are books that have not. Cbcs has done their homework. Im positive of that. I just want to know what happened between the time steve borock was at cgc, always using mcp, and now, definitely not using mcp. Something must have changed his mind about needing the paper when both materials, barex and mylar, are apparently similar inert products. Im only curious because i dont use mcp in my collection and if i dont have to because borock shows proof that it's not needed, then cool. If i do, i guess ill have to buy some.

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby IronMan » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:58 pm

Youmechoose wrote:
DrWatson wrote:
Youmechoose wrote:
IronMan wrote:Off gassing is a result of newspaper slowly decaying. The decay being a natural result of newsprint being made from wood pulp. Since the lignin in wood pulp is not chemically removed from newprint like it is from better, more archival paper products, newsprint naturally degrades - especially if exposed to heat/air/light.

It has always been the subject of some controversy as to whether or not microchamber paper offers any real archival benefit. When all is said and done, proper storage of your books (temperature and humidity controlled) is more important than just about anything else the average person can do.

But thats the question. Is there any concrete proof microchamber paper is needed? I hear more answers of yes than no. I am super lazy today and just need cliff's notes.

Is there any concrete proof microchamber paper is needed? Well, how about proof that it is not needed? That would be every book that currently has white pages that has not been stored with even a shred of microchamber paper since the day it was printed.

There are definitely examples of books that have stood the test of time. On the flip side, there are books that have not. Cbcs has done their homework. Im positive of that. I just want to know what happened between the time steve borock was at cgc, always using mcp, and now, definitely not using mcp. Something must have changed his mind about needing the paper when both materials, barex and mylar, are apparently similar inert products. Im only curious because i dont use mcp in my collection and if i dont have to because borock shows proof that it's not needed, then cool. If i do, i guess ill have to buy some.


On websites I have found that are actual conservation/preservation sites (not "stuff for sale sites) microchamber paper is used to remove odors. No mention is made of actually extending the life of the paper itself.

A few links:
http://www.nedcc.org/free-resources/ask-nedcc/faqs

http://www.rarebooksdigest.com/2012/09/ ... hniques-2/
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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Superior Spider-Man » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:50 pm

I don't know if microchamber paper is absolutely needed or not, but it sure as hell doesn't hurt to have it.

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Youmechoose » Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:13 am

I know that dicex works for cbcs so if he could ask borock what made him decide to not use mcp im sure he would give a good reason. I know it might sound like it but there is no sarcasm in that statement.

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Prophet_DNA » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:23 am

I am no expert and I look forward to hearing what Steve says but one reason I thought they might not is some people forget you actually have to resend your CGC slabs back to get reholder every 5 years because the microchamber paper will start to degrade and actually eat away at the book...
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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Stu_Pidman » Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:08 am

Prophet_DNA wrote:I am no expert and I look forward to hearing what Steve says but one reason I thought they might not is some people forget you actually have to resend your CGC slabs back to get reholder every 5 years because the microchamber paper will start to degrade and actually eat away at the book...


:lol: This is kind of what I thought when I first read this. I think the only reason CGC put in MC paper was so they could tell you you needed to change it out every 7 years. I think CGC actually thought this would be a kind of CPR revenue stream for them, since comic collectors are so anal or have a self-imposed disease like OCD. If you started in 2000, you'd be on your 3rd slab per book by now, right? :roll: Thank god comic collectors weren't stupid enough to fall for this, as it's been proven to be marketing bullshit.

It might sound crazy, but so did CGC wanting to call Modern books "Wizard Age". When it comes to greedy ideas, I don't put anything past CGC.
"Honesty is my only excuse, try to rob me of it but it's no use." Metallica :rockout:

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Why are some comic collectors so proud to have fake OCD? Is it cool to pretend to be mentally ill?

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby timern » Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:15 am

Stu_Pidman wrote:
Prophet_DNA wrote:I am no expert and I look forward to hearing what Steve says but one reason I thought they might not is some people forget you actually have to resend your CGC slabs back to get reholder every 5 years because the microchamber paper will start to degrade and actually eat away at the book...


:lol: This is kind of what I thought when I first read this. I think the only reason CGC put in MC paper was so they could tell you you needed to change it out every 7 years. I think CGC actually thought this would be a kind of CPR revenue stream for them, since comic collectors are so anal or have a self-imposed disease like OCD. If you started in 2000, you'd be on your 3rd slab per book by now, right? :roll: Thank god comic collectors weren't stupid enough to fall for this, as it's been proven to be marketing bullshit.

It might sound crazy, but so did CGC wanting to call Modern books "Wizard Age". When it comes to greedy ideas, I don't put anything past CGC.


http://www.comicpreservation.com/

An excerpt from their site:

Note: It is best to replace these sheet every few years, to avoid toxin feedback. Sometimes you will see shading on the sheets over time, which is the toxins bleeding on the Micro Chamber paper from the comic. A Micro Chamber sheet can only hold some much waste and you don't want polluntants to bleed backon to your preservation project over time, so just check the sheets and replace them as needed.
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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Stu_Pidman » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:17 am

timern wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:
Prophet_DNA wrote:I am no expert and I look forward to hearing what Steve says but one reason I thought they might not is some people forget you actually have to resend your CGC slabs back to get reholder every 5 years because the microchamber paper will start to degrade and actually eat away at the book...


:lol: This is kind of what I thought when I first read this. I think the only reason CGC put in MC paper was so they could tell you you needed to change it out every 7 years. I think CGC actually thought this would be a kind of CPR revenue stream for them, since comic collectors are so anal or have a self-imposed disease like OCD. If you started in 2000, you'd be on your 3rd slab per book by now, right? :roll: Thank god comic collectors weren't stupid enough to fall for this, as it's been proven to be marketing bullshit.

It might sound crazy, but so did CGC wanting to call Modern books "Wizard Age". When it comes to greedy ideas, I don't put anything past CGC.


http://www.comicpreservation.com/

An excerpt from their site:

Note: It is best to replace these sheet every few years, to avoid toxin feedback. Sometimes you will see shading on the sheets over time, which is the toxins bleeding on the Micro Chamber paper from the comic. A Micro Chamber sheet can only hold some much waste and you don't want polluntants to bleed backon to your preservation project over time, so just check the sheets and replace them as needed.


Let me guess: that website sells MCP?

And this is the first time in 14 years I've heard someone say the pollutants (which is spelled wrong in that quote) will bleed back into your books. This means the MCP isn't neutralizing them in the first place?
"Honesty is my only excuse, try to rob me of it but it's no use." Metallica :rockout:

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Why are some comic collectors so proud to have fake OCD? Is it cool to pretend to be mentally ill?

"These CGC Comics in Auction #215 are better than stocks and bonds when it comes to making an investment for the future!" - CGC Facebook page :roll:

"Why do people think 9.6 is not a great grade? 9.6 is NM+. When I was collecting comics, that was a fantastic grade." Steve Borock irony 5/2016

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Prophet_DNA » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:41 am

Stu_Pidman wrote:
timern wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:
Prophet_DNA wrote:I am no expert and I look forward to hearing what Steve says but one reason I thought they might not is some people forget you actually have to resend your CGC slabs back to get reholder every 5 years because the microchamber paper will start to degrade and actually eat away at the book...


:lol: This is kind of what I thought when I first read this. I think the only reason CGC put in MC paper was so they could tell you you needed to change it out every 7 years. I think CGC actually thought this would be a kind of CPR revenue stream for them, since comic collectors are so anal or have a self-imposed disease like OCD. If you started in 2000, you'd be on your 3rd slab per book by now, right? :roll: Thank god comic collectors weren't stupid enough to fall for this, as it's been proven to be marketing bullshit.

It might sound crazy, but so did CGC wanting to call Modern books "Wizard Age". When it comes to greedy ideas, I don't put anything past CGC.


http://www.comicpreservation.com/

An excerpt from their site:

Note: It is best to replace these sheet every few years, to avoid toxin feedback. Sometimes you will see shading on the sheets over time, which is the toxins bleeding on the Micro Chamber paper from the comic. A Micro Chamber sheet can only hold some much waste and you don't want polluntants to bleed backon to your preservation project over time, so just check the sheets and replace them as needed.


Let me guess: that website sells MCP?

And this is the first time in 14 years I've heard someone say the pollutants (which is spelled wrong in that quote) will bleed back into your books. This means the MCP isn't neutralizing them in the first place?


Doesn't look like it... seems like it is just a couple of users over at CGC who built and maintain it...

Site managed by Nathan Chukueke [East Coast-USA] and Kevin Sims [West Coast-USA]
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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Stu_Pidman » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:16 pm

timern wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:
Prophet_DNA wrote:I am no expert and I look forward to hearing what Steve says but one reason I thought they might not is some people forget you actually have to resend your CGC slabs back to get reholder every 5 years because the microchamber paper will start to degrade and actually eat away at the book...


:lol: This is kind of what I thought when I first read this. I think the only reason CGC put in MC paper was so they could tell you you needed to change it out every 7 years. I think CGC actually thought this would be a kind of CPR revenue stream for them, since comic collectors are so anal or have a self-imposed disease like OCD. If you started in 2000, you'd be on your 3rd slab per book by now, right? :roll: Thank god comic collectors weren't stupid enough to fall for this, as it's been proven to be marketing bullshit.

It might sound crazy, but so did CGC wanting to call Modern books "Wizard Age". When it comes to greedy ideas, I don't put anything past CGC.


http://www.comicpreservation.com/

An excerpt from their site:

Note: It is best to replace these sheet every few years, to avoid toxin feedback. Sometimes you will see shading on the sheets over time, which is the toxins bleeding on the Micro Chamber paper from the comic. A Micro Chamber sheet can only hold some much waste and you don't want polluntants to bleed backon to your preservation project over time, so just check the sheets and replace them as needed.


"I don't know where they are getting their use of the term "saturation point". There is a limit to how much acid, microchamber paper can absorb. However, that limit is approximately 170 times that of the equivalent buffered paper. But there is no point where MCP will suddenly release all of the pent up pollutants, oxidants and acids they have absorbed throughout their life. It won't bleed back onto books. "

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ub ... 11&fpart=5
"Honesty is my only excuse, try to rob me of it but it's no use." Metallica :rockout:

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Why are some comic collectors so proud to have fake OCD? Is it cool to pretend to be mentally ill?

"These CGC Comics in Auction #215 are better than stocks and bonds when it comes to making an investment for the future!" - CGC Facebook page :roll:

"Why do people think 9.6 is not a great grade? 9.6 is NM+. When I was collecting comics, that was a fantastic grade." Steve Borock irony 5/2016

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Pepto-Bismol » Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:56 pm

:popcorn:

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby DrWatson » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:16 am

I sure am glad that all the following collections used micro-chamber paper or else they wouldn't be around today: the Church books, the Northlands, the Bostons, the Slobodians, the Mass Copies, the Pacific Coasts, the Curators, the White Mountains, the Bethlehems, the Western Penns, the Edenwalds, the Ohio Copies, the Green Rivers, and the Winnipegs.

Thank God all those collectors used micro-chamber paper or else the books would have just eaten themselves into oblivion.

:roll:

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby mr.highgrade » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:23 am

:popcorn:

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Stu_Pidman » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:10 pm

Stu_Pidman wrote:
timern wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:
Prophet_DNA wrote:I am no expert and I look forward to hearing what Steve says but one reason I thought they might not is some people forget you actually have to resend your CGC slabs back to get reholder every 5 years because the microchamber paper will start to degrade and actually eat away at the book...


:lol: This is kind of what I thought when I first read this. I think the only reason CGC put in MC paper was so they could tell you you needed to change it out every 7 years. I think CGC actually thought this would be a kind of CPR revenue stream for them, since comic collectors are so anal or have a self-imposed disease like OCD. If you started in 2000, you'd be on your 3rd slab per book by now, right? :roll: Thank god comic collectors weren't stupid enough to fall for this, as it's been proven to be marketing bullshit.

It might sound crazy, but so did CGC wanting to call Modern books "Wizard Age". When it comes to greedy ideas, I don't put anything past CGC.


http://www.comicpreservation.com/

An excerpt from their site:

Note: It is best to replace these sheet every few years, to avoid toxin feedback. Sometimes you will see shading on the sheets over time, which is the toxins bleeding on the Micro Chamber paper from the comic. A Micro Chamber sheet can only hold some much waste and you don't want polluntants to bleed backon to your preservation project over time, so just check the sheets and replace them as needed.


"I don't know where they are getting their use of the term "saturation point". There is a limit to how much acid, microchamber paper can absorb. However, that limit is approximately 170 times that of the equivalent buffered paper. But there is no point where MCP will suddenly release all of the pent up pollutants, oxidants and acids they have absorbed throughout their life. It won't bleed back onto books. "

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ub ... 11&fpart=5



Same thread:

"I think there is some confusion here.
The page you referenced above is NOT from CGC
The "Collectors Society Member" badge at the top of their website is NOT an endorsement by CGC. Every free member of the boards, journals or registry is a Collectors Society Member. You can get your own badge to put on your website Here

The statements "avoid toxin feedback." and "you don't want polluntants to bleed backon to your preservation project" are indicative of a lack of understanding of how microchamber or for that matter any alkaline paper (such as fullbacks) works to preserve your comics. They simply have no basis in scientific fact.

Ink transer does not significantly diminish the pollutant/acid neutralizing effectiveness of microchamber paper.

NONE of those statements were made or endorsed by CGC. It is just part of a website that two guys put together. And if spelling or grammar are any indication .... "
"Honesty is my only excuse, try to rob me of it but it's no use." Metallica :rockout:

"Comics are a commodity, thank God!" SpideManOnTilt

Why are some comic collectors so proud to have fake OCD? Is it cool to pretend to be mentally ill?

"These CGC Comics in Auction #215 are better than stocks and bonds when it comes to making an investment for the future!" - CGC Facebook page :roll:

"Why do people think 9.6 is not a great grade? 9.6 is NM+. When I was collecting comics, that was a fantastic grade." Steve Borock irony 5/2016

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Youmechoose » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:47 pm

DrWatson wrote:I sure am glad that all the following collections used micro-chamber paper or else they wouldn't be around today: the Church books, the Northlands, the Bostons, the Slobodians, the Mass Copies, the Pacific Coasts, the Curators, the White Mountains, the Bethlehems, the Western Penns, the Edenwalds, the Ohio Copies, the Green Rivers, and the Winnipegs.

Thank God all those collectors used micro-chamber paper or else the books would have just eaten themselves into oblivion.

:roll:

Thats one of the reasons i asked the question if the first place. Pedigree books 60+ years old with bone white pages and never used microchamber paper. Like this action 1 up on ebay with snow white pages. Another thing that made me ask was why change the stance on mcp after leaving cgc.

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby DiceX » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:25 pm

Youmechoose wrote:
DrWatson wrote:I sure am glad that all the following collections used micro-chamber paper or else they wouldn't be around today: the Church books, the Northlands, the Bostons, the Slobodians, the Mass Copies, the Pacific Coasts, the Curators, the White Mountains, the Bethlehems, the Western Penns, the Edenwalds, the Ohio Copies, the Green Rivers, and the Winnipegs.

Thank God all those collectors used micro-chamber paper or else the books would have just eaten themselves into oblivion.

:roll:

Thats one of the reasons i asked the question if the first place. Pedigree books 60+ years old with bone white pages and never used microchamber paper. Like this action 1 up on ebay with snow white pages. Another thing that made me ask was why change the stance on mcp after leaving cgc.


Because the inner holders are not made of the same material. You're comparing apples to oranges.

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Re: CBCS talk

Postby IronMan » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:33 pm

Stu_Pidman wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:
timern wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:
Prophet_DNA wrote:I am no expert and I look forward to hearing what Steve says but one reason I thought they might not is some people forget you actually have to resend your CGC slabs back to get reholder every 5 years because the microchamber paper will start to degrade and actually eat away at the book...


:lol: This is kind of what I thought when I first read this. I think the only reason CGC put in MC paper was so they could tell you you needed to change it out every 7 years. I think CGC actually thought this would be a kind of CPR revenue stream for them, since comic collectors are so anal or have a self-imposed disease like OCD. If you started in 2000, you'd be on your 3rd slab per book by now, right? :roll: Thank god comic collectors weren't stupid enough to fall for this, as it's been proven to be marketing bullshit.

It might sound crazy, but so did CGC wanting to call Modern books "Wizard Age". When it comes to greedy ideas, I don't put anything past CGC.


http://www.comicpreservation.com/

An excerpt from their site:

Note: It is best to replace these sheet every few years, to avoid toxin feedback. Sometimes you will see shading on the sheets over time, which is the toxins bleeding on the Micro Chamber paper from the comic. A Micro Chamber sheet can only hold some much waste and you don't want polluntants to bleed backon to your preservation project over time, so just check the sheets and replace them as needed.


"I don't know where they are getting their use of the term "saturation point". There is a limit to how much acid, microchamber paper can absorb. However, that limit is approximately 170 times that of the equivalent buffered paper. But there is no point where MCP will suddenly release all of the pent up pollutants, oxidants and acids they have absorbed throughout their life. It won't bleed back onto books. "

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ub ... 11&fpart=5



Same thread:

"I think there is some confusion here.
The page you referenced above is NOT from CGC
The "Collectors Society Member" badge at the top of their website is NOT an endorsement by CGC. Every free member of the boards, journals or registry is a Collectors Society Member. You can get your own badge to put on your website Here

The statements "avoid toxin feedback." and "you don't want polluntants to bleed backon to your preservation project" are indicative of a lack of understanding of how microchamber or for that matter any alkaline paper (such as fullbacks) works to preserve your comics. They simply have no basis in scientific fact.

Ink transer does not significantly diminish the pollutant/acid neutralizing effectiveness of microchamber paper.

NONE of those statements were made or endorsed by CGC. It is just part of a website that two guys put together. And if spelling or grammar are any indication .... "


I know Nathan. They were just trying to put together a website that pulled in a variety of sources of conservation / preservation of comics. Nothing to do with CGC. You'll note nothing is sold on the website and there are links to places that do sell and to people/businesses that perform restoration.

I doubt my research has been exhaustive, but the only places I've found that speak strongly about Microchamber papers archival benefits are places that also sell it. As I said before, more neutral type sites talk about it being effective in removing odors. For instance, I earlier linked to the North East Document Conservation Center and did so because the Library of Congress's website mentions them for paper conservation. I cannot find any reference to microchamber paper on the Library of Congress's website. They do talk about conserving paper documents of course, but nearly always in terms storage conditions or changing the PH of the paper itself.

conservationresources.com (company based in the United Kingdom) is very big on MicroChamber paper and has tests to back up it's benefits. I'm not qualified to say if the tests are fundamentally sound. However I can see that the tests all are designed around introducing large amounts of pollutants into a sealed case, artificially aging the paper and then doing fold tests. But these tests don't seem to mimic real world conditions. - collectors don't intentionally store their books in an environment that is artificially polluted and hot. For our purposes, the microchamber paper is mostly just absorbing outgassing of the paper itself. If collectors are showing any good sense, the books are already stored in temperature, humidity and light controlled environments. Things that the Library of Congress stresses. You would basically have to store your books in a diesel mechanics garage during a hot Florida summer to duplicate the test conditions. conservationresources.com sells microchamber paper.

I think it's 100% accurate and safe to say that MicroChamber paper will not do any harm. The debate has always been just how much good it really does.
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Re: CBCS talk

Postby Stu_Pidman » Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:06 am

IronMan wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:
timern wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:
Prophet_DNA wrote:I am no expert and I look forward to hearing what Steve says but one reason I thought they might not is some people forget you actually have to resend your CGC slabs back to get reholder every 5 years because the microchamber paper will start to degrade and actually eat away at the book...


:lol: This is kind of what I thought when I first read this. I think the only reason CGC put in MC paper was so they could tell you you needed to change it out every 7 years. I think CGC actually thought this would be a kind of CPR revenue stream for them, since comic collectors are so anal or have a self-imposed disease like OCD. If you started in 2000, you'd be on your 3rd slab per book by now, right? :roll: Thank god comic collectors weren't stupid enough to fall for this, as it's been proven to be marketing bullshit.

It might sound crazy, but so did CGC wanting to call Modern books "Wizard Age". When it comes to greedy ideas, I don't put anything past CGC.


http://www.comicpreservation.com/

An excerpt from their site:

Note: It is best to replace these sheet every few years, to avoid toxin feedback. Sometimes you will see shading on the sheets over time, which is the toxins bleeding on the Micro Chamber paper from the comic. A Micro Chamber sheet can only hold some much waste and you don't want polluntants to bleed backon to your preservation project over time, so just check the sheets and replace them as needed.


"I don't know where they are getting their use of the term "saturation point". There is a limit to how much acid, microchamber paper can absorb. However, that limit is approximately 170 times that of the equivalent buffered paper. But there is no point where MCP will suddenly release all of the pent up pollutants, oxidants and acids they have absorbed throughout their life. It won't bleed back onto books. "

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ub ... 11&fpart=5



Same thread:

"I think there is some confusion here.
The page you referenced above is NOT from CGC
The "Collectors Society Member" badge at the top of their website is NOT an endorsement by CGC. Every free member of the boards, journals or registry is a Collectors Society Member. You can get your own badge to put on your website Here

The statements "avoid toxin feedback." and "you don't want polluntants to bleed backon to your preservation project" are indicative of a lack of understanding of how microchamber or for that matter any alkaline paper (such as fullbacks) works to preserve your comics. They simply have no basis in scientific fact.

Ink transer does not significantly diminish the pollutant/acid neutralizing effectiveness of microchamber paper.

NONE of those statements were made or endorsed by CGC. It is just part of a website that two guys put together. And if spelling or grammar are any indication .... "


I know Nathan. They were just trying to put together a website that pulled in a variety of sources of conservation / preservation of comics.


Then maybe you could convince them to remove their misinformation?
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Re: CBCS talk

Postby IronMan » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:03 am

Stu_Pidman wrote:
IronMan wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:
timern wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:
Prophet_DNA wrote:
Then maybe you could convince them to remove their misinformation?


I'll likely pass the information along. But I think it's clear from the conversation here and controversy of "CGC does CBCS doesn't" that exactly what MCP accomplishes in comic books in normal storage conditions is not entirely agreed upon.
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