NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

General discussion about CBCS Grading.
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NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Illustrious » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:51 am

I was hoping this day would come, now my Jack Kirby signed Cap #3 can get some respect:

https://www.facebook.com/CBCScomics/posts/1453829514882889:0



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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby sniderwj » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:26 am

Very cool.. So they are partnering with CSAComics.com.

Wasn't Vault talking about the same thing?

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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Tom473 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:29 am

sniderwj wrote:Very cool.. So they are partnering with CSAComics.com.

Wasn't Vault talking about the same thing?


As is PGX, though not with the same verification company.

So I could use CBCS, PGX, or Vault for this, hmm ...which of the 3 would be the most trusted? :hmmm:
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby JazzMan » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:36 am

:banana5: :banana5: :banana5:

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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Orbitt187 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:52 am

CGC really missed the boat with this one. Cbcs are gonna get tons of books in for this
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Stu_Pidman » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:59 am

Hate this idea, I don't trust it no matter who's doing it. This will make the yellow slabbed CGC books of deceased artists/writers all that more valuable, as they are the only books guaranteed to have been actually signed by the person.
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Tom473 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:23 am

Stu_Pidman wrote: This will make the yellow slabbed CGC books of deceased artists/writers all that more valuable


Isn't that a positive? I believe this is a win win, CBCS/CGC witnessed books may become more valuable, and those who have signatures from creators that passed prior to CGC/CBCS now have a certification avenue. I have a few books with COAs from DF even for living legends that I will be sending to CBCS.
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Stu_Pidman » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:38 am

I'd love for CBCS to display books that were rejected, that were found to be forgeries. That could actually help the hobby, and help the common collector detect fakes. Weren't there some suspect PGX Bernie Wrightson signed books a while ago? They'd be a perfect test case for several reasons.
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby sniderwj » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:59 am

Stu_Pidman wrote:I'd love for CBCS to display books that were rejected, that were found to be forgeries. That could actually help the hobby, and help the common collector detect fakes. Weren't there some suspect PGX Bernie Wrightson signed books a while ago? They'd be a perfect test case for several reasons.


I dig Stu's idea. I think the only thing that would stop them would be it could become a data source for forgers to get better.

I wonder about creators that have either changed their signatures over time or that did special signatures for an event. I would expect that it depends on the depth of examples in CSA's signature database. I also wonder if they will use CBCS's witness system to build it up with known-good sigs.

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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby MagnetoWasRight » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:06 am

Wow...this is a game changer for signed books.

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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Sluggo » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:34 am

sniderwj wrote:I wonder about creators that have either changed their signatures over time or that did special signatures for an event.


This is the part I'm curious about too. I have a 80-90s era Fantastic Four that was worked on by Arthur Adams and Art Thibert but the sig on the cover doesn't look like any current samples of eithersig - so I'm assuming it has changed over the years. I guess the ones with COAs and the like will be relatively simple to verify, some of the older ones not so much. But I would trust them more to judge than others who might offer the service in the future.
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Stu_Pidman » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:50 am

Sluggo wrote:
sniderwj wrote:I wonder about creators that have either changed their signatures over time or that did special signatures for an event.


This is the part I'm curious about too. I have a 80-90s era Fantastic Four that was worked on by Arthur Adams and Art Thibert but the sig on the cover doesn't look like any current samples of eithersig - so I'm assuming it has changed over the years. I guess the ones with COAs and the like will be relatively simple to verify, some of the older ones not so much. But I would trust them more to judge than others who might offer the service in the future.


Frank Miller's sig has changed a lot over the years too.
What about Jack Kirby? I heard his wife Roz signed a lot of stuff for him. Can anyone verify or refute this?

I hope CBCS has a policy of NOT letting the authenticators see the COA. That COA means nothing, really, and the sig needs to be verified independently of any paperwork.
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby MagnetoWasRight » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:10 am

This is a game changer...I'm excited for this service myself. I've got some Byrne stuff I'm going to sub along with a few others.

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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Heronext » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:42 pm

1. Why is there so much attention to this considering it is just a copy of what PGX already announced in the Overstreet Guide?

2. Am I the only one who thinks this is a HORRIBLE idea? How many comics are going to be ruined by people trying to fake Jack Kirby signatures? There is a reason CGC never did this and it is because you can't 100% authenticate a signature. The sports memorabilia fiasco of the past 20 years proved that. This is really beneath CBCS.
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Tom473 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:31 pm

Heronext wrote:1. Why is there so much attention to this considering it is just a copy of what PGX already announced in the Overstreet Guide?


CBCS, in business less than 4 months and already has 2,250 "likes" on FB.
PGX, in business for over a decade and has 164 "likes" on FB

I don't know...it's a mystery...why something PGX announces wouldn't matter to anyone? :hmmm:

Heronext wrote:2. Am I the only one who thinks this is a HORRIBLE idea? How many comics are going to be ruined by people trying to fake Jack Kirby signatures? There is a reason CGC never did this and it is because you can't 100% authenticate a signature. The sports memorabilia fiasco of the past 20 years proved that. This is really beneath CBCS.


I think your right about people trying to sneak sigs by, and some probably will get through. Although, CBCS will still distinguish between "Verified" and "Authenticated" with the latter holding more legitimacy, and I think, over time, authenticated books will become more valuable. Those who choose not to trust "Verified" won't have to buy them, and honestly, most people aren't looking to sell those verified books signed by their personal heroes, just an opportunity to certify them, preserve them, and maybe display them without a green label that just says 'writing with marker on cover' (or whatever CGC writes these days).
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby sniderwj » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:39 am

I dropped this over in the Vault thread but figured the CBCS guys/gals would see it better over here. There seems to be some disagreement on what this actually means.

csacomics.com wrote:CSA Comics LLC is a signature authentication company that exclusively authenticates comic book signatures for CBCS Comics, INC


The way that I read it is that CSA is only authenticating signatures for CBCS and therefore not Vault or PGX. I even had my wife look at that sentence and she agreed with me. Now I can be thick and my grammar-fu isn't the best. I can see how it could be interpreted the other way as well (CBCS only uses CSA to authenticate signatures).

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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Heronext » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:07 am

sniderwj wrote:I dropped this over in the Vault thread but figured the CBCS guys/gals would see it better over here. There seems to be some disagreement on what this actually means.

csacomics.com wrote:CSA Comics LLC is a signature authentication company that exclusively authenticates comic book signatures for CBCS Comics, INC


The way that I read it is that CSA is only authenticating signatures for CBCS and therefore not Vault or PGX. I even had my wife look at that sentence and she agreed with me. Now I can be thick and my grammar-fu isn't the best. I can see how it could be interpreted the other way as well (CBCS only uses CSA to authenticate signatures).


How long has CSA Comics been around? Was this company born at the same time as CBCS? Their website is very basic and even has the same logo
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Stu_Pidman » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:15 am

Heronext wrote:
sniderwj wrote:I dropped this over in the Vault thread but figured the CBCS guys/gals would see it better over here. There seems to be some disagreement on what this actually means.

csacomics.com wrote:CSA Comics LLC is a signature authentication company that exclusively authenticates comic book signatures for CBCS Comics, INC


The way that I read it is that CSA is only authenticating signatures for CBCS and therefore not Vault or PGX. I even had my wife look at that sentence and she agreed with me. Now I can be thick and my grammar-fu isn't the best. I can see how it could be interpreted the other way as well (CBCS only uses CSA to authenticate signatures).


How long has CSA Comics been around? Was this company born at the same time as CBCS? Their website is very basic and even has the same logo


Yeah, posts like this in another thread makes me want to know more: "They are three brothers who collect comics. They dont have any special skills or experience but they've seen enough sigs to know what is right and what is not". I don't know who the poster really is, but maybe he can tell us more.
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby MR-SigS » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:08 am

Stu_Pidman wrote:Hate this idea, I don't trust it no matter who's doing it. This will make the yellow slabbed CGC books of deceased artists/writers all that more valuable, as they are the only books guaranteed to have been actually signed by the person.


You make some great points, Stu. However in some situations like ours, where we obtained the sigs personally, there really isn't a concern for trust. I'm sure your point was directed towards 2nd hand purchases of signed books- and to that I'll admit a certain hesitation for now.


Stu_Pidman wrote:I'd love for CBCS to display books that were rejected, that were found to be forgeries. That could actually help the hobby, and help the common collector detect fakes. Weren't there some suspect PGX Bernie Wrightson signed books a while ago? They'd be a perfect test case for several reasons.


I love this idea! :winnah:


I think I'm going to watch how this goes for a while before submitting something signed. I've been saying that if a grading service offered something like this, that I'd start submitting the over 250 signed books I have. Well, I never thought they'd actually do it, so now I'm on the spot :lol:
I'll most likely just submit the 9.4+ books.

Of the 2nd hand sigs I have (Aragones, Byrne, Claremont, Perez, Ellison, Quesada), I'd probably just submit the Aragones and Ellison. :bowdown:
Here's a question for CBCS (I'll probably post this elsewhere, as well): The Quesada sig is an old DF/COA before they sealed the books in a bag with a sticker. The problem with that one is, the COA says it's number 1060 of 5000, but Quesada wrote 1160/5000. How would CBCS/CSA handle that one?

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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Stu_Pidman » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:44 am

MR-SigS wrote:Here's a question for CBCS (I'll probably post this elsewhere, as well): The Quesada sig is an old DF/COA before they sealed the books in a bag with a sticker. The problem with that one is, the COA says it's number 1060 of 5000, but Quesada wrote 1160/5000. How would CBCS/CSA handle that one?

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:



I know - don't send in the COA! :P
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby MR-SigS » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:57 am

:facepalm2:

Okay, so you know how to use your brain cells.


Show off.
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby Stu_Pidman » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:12 am

MR-SigS wrote::facepalm2:

Okay, so you know how to use your brain cells.


Show off.


Woo hoo! I have some brain cells left! :banana:
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby MR-SigS » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:46 pm

Stu_Pidman wrote:
MR-SigS wrote::facepalm2:

Okay, so you know how to use your brain cells.


Show off.


Woo hoo! I have some brain cells left! :banana:


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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby IronMan » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:26 pm

Sluggo wrote:
sniderwj wrote:I wonder about creators that have either changed their signatures over time or that did special signatures for an event.


This is the part I'm curious about too. I have a 80-90s era Fantastic Four that was worked on by Arthur Adams and Art Thibert but the sig on the cover doesn't look like any current samples of eithersig - so I'm assuming it has changed over the years. I guess the ones with COAs and the like will be relatively simple to verify, some of the older ones not so much. But I would trust them more to judge than others who might offer the service in the future.


CSA says they have multiple signatures of creators. They also look at the period signed and ink.

I like the idea. There have been companies and experts authenticating signatures and autographs in other hobbies as well as historical autographs for decades.
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Re: NEW CBCS VERIFIED SIGNATURE PROGRAM!

Postby JazzMan » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:06 am

This one is going once the service is available.

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