ouch-cbcs screws up

General discussion about CBCS Grading.
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ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby kav » Sat May 02, 2015 9:24 pm




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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby MR-SigS » Sun May 03, 2015 11:17 am

Best to start at the beginning.
This will be quite interesting. I also hope this is addressed soon.
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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby Stu_Pidman » Sun May 03, 2015 1:45 pm

More evidence of CGC's hypocriscy, that thread should've been pulled by now.
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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby Superior Spider-Man » Sun May 03, 2015 6:24 pm

I am by no means a Restoration Detection Expert,... but logic and common sense tells me that when a book arrives at a 3rd party grading company, with obvious extensive restoration work done to it, and obvious leaf casting, one would think the grader would microscope the hell out of the leaf cast and original cover areas and make a very thorough examination. Now if ONLY the leaf cast area was trimmed (and not any of the cover as Ze-man stated) then an expert should detect this. But, let's take something else into consideration,... look at the pre-leaf cast cover below that Ze-man posted. That is some very smooth vertical and horizontal edges for a 75 year old trashed up cover!

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I don't know if the OP is the OO, or if he acquired it from the OO, or what. I'm simply saying that it should be taken into consideration that the cover may have possibly been trimmed before it came into the OP's possession, and CGC didn't spot the trimming or didn't bother checking because they were going to restore the shit out of it anyway, and CBCS spotted cover trimming (if there is actually cover trimming). So, was any kind of restoration detection done on this beat up cover prior to doing any restoration work? I am by no means defending CBCS or criticizing CGC. I'm just simply saying there are some possibilities to take into consideration that are not out in the open.

So as it stands at the moment, CBCS just took a haymaker across the chin!

But on the flip side,.. for amusement....

After CGC did all this work on the book, why did the OP turn around and send the book to CBCS? It wasn't to test CBCS's Restoration Detection abilities, it was because.......

ComicsMV wrote: Hey guys , thinking of taking this book to market but I'm conflicted which label will impact the value more.


I think it's obvious he figured he might possibly make more money on the book slabbed with a CBCS label!

So in retrospect, CGC does all the hard work to make the book beautiful, and the submitter in-turn sends the book to CBCS hoping for a better dollar return,... and granted, we all have the right to do so. But, to turn around and post his disappointment/uncertainty concerning CBCS's results on the CGC Board (along with his obvious intentions) was an insulting slap across CGC's face!
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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby kav » Mon May 04, 2015 12:47 pm

Ouch
Both contestants are taking severe body blows!!!!

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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby MR-SigS » Tue May 05, 2015 6:39 am

kav wrote:Ouch
Both contestants are taking severe body blows!!!!


:lol:
As long as there's nothing below the belt. :popcorn:
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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby Prophet_DNA » Tue May 05, 2015 10:03 am

I like the runnin and huggin method myself lol...
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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby timern » Thu May 07, 2015 12:50 am

Superior Spider-Man wrote:I am by no means a Restoration Detection Expert,... but logic and common sense tells me that when a book arrives at a 3rd party grading company, with obvious extensive restoration work done to it, and obvious leaf casting, one would think the grader would microscope the hell out of the leaf cast and original cover areas and make a very thorough examination. Now if ONLY the leaf cast area was trimmed (and not any of the cover as Ze-man stated) then an expert should detect this. But, let's take something else into consideration,... look at the pre-leaf cast cover below that Ze-man posted. That is some very smooth vertical and horizontal edges for a 75 year old trashed up cover!

Image

I don't know if the OP is the OO, or if he acquired it from the OO, or what. I'm simply saying that it should be taken into consideration that the cover may have possibly been trimmed before it came into the OP's possession, and CGC didn't spot the trimming or didn't bother checking because they were going to restore the shit out of it anyway, and CBCS spotted cover trimming (if there is actually cover trimming). So, was any kind of restoration detection done on this beat up cover prior to doing any restoration work? I am by no means defending CBCS or criticizing CGC. I'm just simply saying there are some possibilities to take into consideration that are not out in the open.

So as it stands at the moment, CBCS just took a haymaker across the chin!

But on the flip side,.. for amusement....

After CGC did all this work on the book, why did the OP turn around and send the book to CBCS? It wasn't to test CBCS's Restoration Detection abilities, it was because.......

ComicsMV wrote: Hey guys , thinking of taking this book to market but I'm conflicted which label will impact the value more.


I think it's obvious he figured he might possibly make more money on the book slabbed with a CBCS label!

So in retrospect, CGC does all the hard work to make the book beautiful, and the submitter in-turn sends the book to CBCS hoping for a better dollar return,... and granted, we all have the right to do so. But, to turn around and post his disappointment/uncertainty concerning CBCS's results on the CGC Board (along with his obvious intentions) was an insulting slap across CGC's face!


Bill I think you hit the nail on the head with these comments! Bravo! :thumbsup2:
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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby kav » Tue May 19, 2015 6:16 pm

So Borock hasn't addressed this? He's following the CGC model of just ignoring a problem I guess.

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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby MR-SigS » Wed May 20, 2015 6:05 am

kav wrote:So Borock hasn't addressed this?


Nope. Not here, anyway.
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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby Stu_Pidman » Wed May 20, 2015 6:51 am

kav wrote:So Borock hasn't addressed this? He's following the CGC model of just ignoring a problem I guess.


Borock made CGC everything it is today :roll:
"Honesty is my only excuse, try to rob me of it but it's no use." Metallica :rockout:

"Comics are a commodity, thank God!" SpideManOnTilt

Why are some comic collectors so proud to have fake OCD? Is it cool to pretend to be mentally ill?

"These CGC Comics in Auction #215 are better than stocks and bonds when it comes to making an investment for the future!" - CGC Facebook page :roll:

"Why do people think 9.6 is not a great grade? 9.6 is NM+. When I was collecting comics, that was a fantastic grade." Steve Borock irony 5/2016

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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby DiceX » Wed May 20, 2015 7:24 am

kav wrote:So Borock hasn't addressed this? He's following the CGC model of just ignoring a problem I guess.


The problem has been addressed and is in the process of being resolved.

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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby Superior Spider-Man » Thu May 21, 2015 6:55 pm

It only makes sense that before the problem can be addressed, the book needs to be back in hand,... by either grading party.

As I stated above, there are still too many unanswered questions..... Was the original cover trimmed prior to CGC's work?... did CGC trim the original cover?... did CGC even bother checking because they were going to do a massive restoration...? was CBCS negligent in their restoration detection? And maybe CBCS actually did spot trimming on the original cover. And just because nobody has heard or read about the problem being addressed, doesn't mean that it isn't being addressed.

As DiceX stated, CBCS is addressing the problem.

What is CGC doing? Do they want to re-examine the book or are they sticking to their guns?
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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby kav » Tue May 26, 2015 10:29 am

Well can they at least say how an amateur can do leaf casting, pieces added, spine reinforced etc?

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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby Superior Spider-Man » Tue May 26, 2015 11:48 am

kav wrote:Well can they at least say how an amateur can do leaf casting, pieces added, spine reinforced etc?


:lol:

Now THAT is going to take some explaining! :popcorn:

Thanks for pointing that out. I overlooked it!
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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby Stu_Pidman » Tue May 26, 2015 12:07 pm

kav wrote:Well can they at least say how an amateur can do leaf casting, pieces added, spine reinforced etc?


If a pro does a shitty job, I'd call that amateur. And if someone like Mike from Hero Restoration tried leaf-casting the first year he was doing resto, I'd call that amateur.
"Honesty is my only excuse, try to rob me of it but it's no use." Metallica :rockout:

"Comics are a commodity, thank God!" SpideManOnTilt

Why are some comic collectors so proud to have fake OCD? Is it cool to pretend to be mentally ill?

"These CGC Comics in Auction #215 are better than stocks and bonds when it comes to making an investment for the future!" - CGC Facebook page :roll:

"Why do people think 9.6 is not a great grade? 9.6 is NM+. When I was collecting comics, that was a fantastic grade." Steve Borock irony 5/2016

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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby kav » Tue May 26, 2015 6:05 pm

Looked like a pretty solid job to my eyes-he even kept the tiny separation between split cover pieces and didn't jam em together but carefully matched up the artwork.

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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby Superior Spider-Man » Tue May 26, 2015 8:33 pm

This is getting even more interesting!

Somebody at some 3rd party grading business has some very serious questions to answer concerning this book,...
regardless how embarrassing it may be.

:popcorn:
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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby Stu_Pidman » Wed May 27, 2015 12:35 am

At least Shadroch has his head on straight in that thread.
"Honesty is my only excuse, try to rob me of it but it's no use." Metallica :rockout:

"Comics are a commodity, thank God!" SpideManOnTilt

Why are some comic collectors so proud to have fake OCD? Is it cool to pretend to be mentally ill?

"These CGC Comics in Auction #215 are better than stocks and bonds when it comes to making an investment for the future!" - CGC Facebook page :roll:

"Why do people think 9.6 is not a great grade? 9.6 is NM+. When I was collecting comics, that was a fantastic grade." Steve Borock irony 5/2016

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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby Prophet_DNA » Wed May 27, 2015 5:11 am

Can we get a TLDR here? Lol... I don't want to search the original thread over at CGC... takes to long...
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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby Superior Spider-Man » Wed May 27, 2015 5:18 am

Shadroch's comments are very true. But despite CGC's motive for keeping it alive, it's a thread that needs to be read IMO. Also, that thread is a month old and surprisingly it's only 3 pages long. Probably due to the forum it resides in.

I've been so focused on the trimming issue that I totally overlooked the A vs P until Kav opened my eyes. Now we've got another problem here! :faint2:
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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby Superior Spider-Man » Wed May 27, 2015 4:38 pm

Prophet_DNA wrote:Can we get a TLDR here?


What's a TLDR ? :embarrassed:
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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby kav » Wed May 27, 2015 7:19 pm

Too long-didn't read-he wants a summary

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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby kav » Wed May 27, 2015 7:21 pm

Superior Spider-Man wrote:Shadroch's comments are very true. But despite CGC's motive for keeping it alive, it's a thread that needs to be read IMO. Also, that thread is a month old and surprisingly it's only 3 pages long. Probably due to the forum it resides in.

I've been so focused on the trimming issue that I totally overlooked the A vs P until Kav opened my eyes. Now we've got another problem here! :faint2:

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Re: ouch-cbcs screws up

Postby sniderwj » Thu May 28, 2015 12:56 am

Superior Spider-Man wrote:
Prophet_DNA wrote:Can we get a TLDR here?


What's a TLDR ? :embarrassed:

Too Long Didn't Read


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