ZING!!!!!!!!!!

General discussion about CBCS Grading.
kav
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ZING!!!!!!!!!!

Postby kav » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:45 pm

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http://us9.campaign-archive1.com/?u=28f ... ce22925121

Finally, once our forum is up and running, we will not delete posts or ban clients simply because a competing company is mentioned. We realize that many people will have interesting comments about all aspects of the industry and we will respect open dialogue even if it mentions a competitor.



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Re: ZING!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nemesis » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:01 pm

- we will now start charging you when we recieve the books - zing!!
- if you ask us to combine shipment on several tiers all books will be dropped down to the slowest submission tier - zing!!
- fast pass now works exactly like the cgc, not half the guaranteed turnaround time but half the current turnaround time - zing!!
- the modern tier just doubled its turnaround time - zing!
- remember when we launched we said that steve will finalize every book? now it's "Steve Borock, and those who he has personally trained" - zing!!

but we have free graders notes! zing zing!!

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Re: ZING!!!!!!!!!!

Postby IronMan » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:54 pm

nemesis wrote:- we will now start charging you when we recieve the books - zing!!
- if you ask us to combine shipment on several tiers all books will be dropped down to the slowest submission tier - zing!!
- fast pass now works exactly like the cgc, not half the guaranteed turnaround time but half the current turnaround time - zing!!
- the modern tier just doubled its turnaround time - zing!
- remember when we launched we said that steve will finalize every book? now it's "Steve Borock, and those who he has personally trained" - zing!!

but we have free graders notes! zing zing!!


The first - charging when books are received - is not a done deal. Based on the posts I'm seeing on FB, the only way they will be changing the current policy of charging when the books are graded is by cooking the poll results. No doubt a few people that have trouble keeping track of their bank balances got hit with NSF fees when CBCS charged three months after receiving their books. I also expect CBCS has had instances where getting paid three months later proved difficult. But if they do as they say and email the question to all their current customers and let them decide, I've little doubt 80% will say leave things as they are.

Two and three are reasonable to call "zings". They are not pluses for the customer.
We'd all love TAT's that were fairly quick and inexpensive. The disappointment stems from CBCS thinking /telling us they could do this. If their customer base was a lot smaller, they probably could. Unfortunately for TAT's (but good for CBCS) their customer base is way bigger than expected. If the only thing that matters is cheap and quick PGX is still in business. I for one will do with CBCS what I 've done with CGC for years. Balance cost against speed. Where speed doesn't matter or cost is paramount, I'll wait.

Number four needs to change. You cannot have a long term viable business model where one person is absolutely 100% essential to the business functioning. People get sick, people need vacations and people eventually die. White guys in their 50's and 60's unexpectedly drop dead of heart attacks all the time - especially if they work themselves like rented mules. So this is a change that I support and it needs to happen sooner rather than later. Things can't come to a complete stop every time SB takes a few days off. Or takes a two week vacation. Or is no longer around.
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Re: ZING!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Stu_Pidman » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:58 am

IronMan wrote:We'd all love TAT's that were fairly quick and inexpensive. The disappointment stems from CBCS thinking /telling us they could do this. If their customer base was a lot smaller, they probably could. Unfortunately for TAT's (but good for CBCS) their customer base is way bigger than expected.


You'd think Borock would've learned from the first time he did this, about 8-9 years ago at CGC. He said CGC would remain on-time and they would offer discounts/incentives if times weren't met. Take a guess what happened, he reneged. Why did he think it would work a second time after he went back on his word at CGC the first time?

IronMan wrote:Number four needs to change. You cannot have a long term viable business model where one person is absolutely 100% essential to the business functioning. People get sick, people need vacations and people eventually die. White guys in their 50's and 60's unexpectedly drop dead of heart attacks all the time - especially if they work themselves like rented mules. So this is a change that I support and it needs to happen sooner rather than later. Things can't come to a complete stop every time SB takes a few days off. Or takes a two week vacation. Or is no longer around.


Or is drunk/hungover.
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Re: ZING!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Stu_Pidman » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:09 am

From Kav's link:

"CBCS is currently the industry leader in many of the free services we provide: we do not charge clients for the mere opportunity to submit comic books,"

That's a bit disingenuous, as it is also free to submit to CGC. They worded it correctly from their POV tho, as it is true that CBCS doesn't charge to submit. But they neglected to mention that CGC also doesn't charge to submit.
"Honesty is my only excuse, try to rob me of it but it's no use." Metallica :rockout:

"Comics are a commodity, thank God!" SpideManOnTilt

Why are some comic collectors so proud to have fake OCD? Is it cool to pretend to be mentally ill?

"These CGC Comics in Auction #215 are better than stocks and bonds when it comes to making an investment for the future!" - CGC Facebook page :roll:

"Why do people think 9.6 is not a great grade? 9.6 is NM+. When I was collecting comics, that was a fantastic grade." Steve Borock irony 5/2016

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Re: ZING!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Stu_Pidman » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:25 am

kav wrote:From:
http://us9.campaign-archive1.com/?u=28f ... ce22925121

Finally, once our forum is up and running, we will not delete posts or ban clients simply because a competing company is mentioned. We realize that many people will have interesting comments about all aspects of the industry and we will respect open dialogue even if it mentions a competitor.


LOL, I just saw this on the CGC Board. That new loudmouth poster "CopperAgeKids" tried to advertise a CBCS book on their board :lol:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ub ... ost8359036
"Honesty is my only excuse, try to rob me of it but it's no use." Metallica :rockout:

"Comics are a commodity, thank God!" SpideManOnTilt

Why are some comic collectors so proud to have fake OCD? Is it cool to pretend to be mentally ill?

"These CGC Comics in Auction #215 are better than stocks and bonds when it comes to making an investment for the future!" - CGC Facebook page :roll:

"Why do people think 9.6 is not a great grade? 9.6 is NM+. When I was collecting comics, that was a fantastic grade." Steve Borock irony 5/2016

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Re: ZING!!!!!!!!!!

Postby IronMan » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:44 am

Stu_Pidman wrote:From Kav's link:

"CBCS is currently the industry leader in many of the free services we provide: we do not charge clients for the mere opportunity to submit comic books,"

That's a bit disingenuous, as it is also free to submit to CGC. They worded it correctly from their POV tho, as it is true that CBCS doesn't charge to submit. But they neglected to mention that CGC also doesn't charge to submit.


CGC does charge collectors for the privilege of submitting comics directly to them. The "free" option of submitting books to CGC is by using SOMEONE ELSE's account through dealers approved to do so.

And those approved dealers don't do so just because they are sweethearts. Maybe some are sweethearts, but they do so because they get a 20% discount on grading fees and offer a 10% discount to customers submitting to them. They make money doing essentially nothing. They don't handle the books, they don't touch a submission form. Just a hyperlink connection on their website to their submission form on the CGC website. Since the customer is paying for the grading, it is indeed still costing them something to submit books.

The same sentence by Dr Bornstein goes on to say they don't charge for submission forms or grading notes, which is an incontestable statement. CGC charges $5 per submission form and grading notes do cost money.

Going back to an earlier statement about why SB thought a grading company could stay on time this go around. Maybe what he has said before is true. They have way, way more business than they anticipated. What did SB say earlier - as many books submitted in six months as they expected in two years? PGX doesn't get near as much business - and they are on time.
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Re: ZING!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Stu_Pidman » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:05 am

IronMan wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:From Kav's link:

"CBCS is currently the industry leader in many of the free services we provide: we do not charge clients for the mere opportunity to submit comic books,"

That's a bit disingenuous, as it is also free to submit to CGC. They worded it correctly from their POV tho, as it is true that CBCS doesn't charge to submit. But they neglected to mention that CGC also doesn't charge to submit.


CGC does charge collectors for the privilege of submitting comics directly to them. The "free" option of submitting books to CGC is by using SOMEONE ELSE's account through dealers approved to do so.


You always get hung up on the "direct" portion of this discussion, that's why I left it out :lol: I will repeat my definition of "direct" - can I submit a comic to CGC while being naked 100% of the time? Yes, I can. To me, that is direct :lol: And the only difference between a paid membership and a free membership is being able to track your submission online. Since I don't have the fake OCD a lot of collectors have, I wouldn't even care. But you can call CGC's FREE phone number and track it that way.

And let me be clear - you CAN submit to CGC without paying for a membership AND still get a free 10% discount - an incontestable statement.

And those approved dealers don't do so just because they are sweethearts. Maybe some are sweethearts, but they do so because they get a 20% discount on grading fees and offer a 10% discount to customers submitting to them. They make money doing essentially nothing. They don't handle the books, they don't touch a submission form. Just a hyperlink connection on their website to their submission form on the CGC website. Since the customer is paying for the grading, it is indeed still costing them something to submit books.


I don't understand. Submitters get a free 10% discount without having to buy a membership - how is that costing them something (above the obvious fee) to submit books? Are you refering to the difference between the submitter getting a 20% discount and a 10% discount? Paid memberships only get a 10% discount anyway.

The same sentence by Dr Bornstein goes on to say they don't charge for submission forms


If you want to play semantics, CGC submission forms are also free, I can print them out right now. The $5 is a processing fee for your entire invoice, whether it's for 1 book or 30. You aren't buying submission forms as Bornstein said :mrgreen:

or grading notes, which is an incontestable statement. CGC charges $5 per submission form and grading notes do cost money.

Going back to an earlier statement about why SB thought a grading company could stay on time this go around. Maybe what he has said before is true. They have way, way more business than they anticipated. What did SB say earlier - as many books submitted in six months as they expected in two years? PGX doesn't get near as much business - and they are on time.


Sounds implausible but within the realm of possibility. If only Borock had a background in slabbing comics, he might have been able to estimate better! :roll:
"Honesty is my only excuse, try to rob me of it but it's no use." Metallica :rockout:

"Comics are a commodity, thank God!" SpideManOnTilt

Why are some comic collectors so proud to have fake OCD? Is it cool to pretend to be mentally ill?

"These CGC Comics in Auction #215 are better than stocks and bonds when it comes to making an investment for the future!" - CGC Facebook page :roll:

"Why do people think 9.6 is not a great grade? 9.6 is NM+. When I was collecting comics, that was a fantastic grade." Steve Borock irony 5/2016

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Re: ZING!!!!!!!!!!

Postby electricprune » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:22 am

IronMan wrote:
The first - charging when books are received - is not a done deal. Based on the posts I'm seeing on FB, the only way they will be changing the current policy of charging when the books are graded is by cooking the poll results.



This will be interesting to see how this plays out. I agree that only a small minority of people would want to be billed for a service they won't receive for upwards of three months. I really hope CBCS doesn't change this.

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Re: ZING!!!!!!!!!!

Postby IronMan » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:26 pm

Stu_Pidman wrote:
IronMan wrote:
Stu_Pidman wrote:From Kav's link:

"CBCS is currently the industry leader in many of the free services we provide: we do not charge clients for the mere opportunity to submit comic books,"

That's a bit disingenuous, as it is also free to submit to CGC. They worded it correctly from their POV tho, as it is true that CBCS doesn't charge to submit. But they neglected to mention that CGC also doesn't charge to submit.


CGC does charge collectors for the privilege of submitting comics directly to them. The "free" option of submitting books to CGC is by using SOMEONE ELSE's account through dealers approved to do so.


You always get hung up on the "direct" portion of this discussion, that's why I left it out :lol: I will repeat my definition of "direct" - can I submit a comic to CGC while being naked 100% of the time? Yes, I can. To me, that is direct :lol: And the only difference between a paid membership and a free membership is being able to track your submission online. Since I don't have the fake OCD a lot of collectors have, I wouldn't even care. But you can call CGC's FREE phone number and track it that way.

And let me be clear - you CAN submit to CGC without paying for a membership AND still get a free 10% discount - an incontestable statement.


You and I both get bogged down in the semantics of it. So were both right. No reason to argue it, one can submit books to CGC without joining the collector society. You can even get 10% off.

However, the free collector society membership does not have submission privileges. One has to pay at least pay $39 (associate member) to submit books "directly" to CGC. Which also gives you 10% off. Collector Society memberships go all the way up to $275 a year (Elite) at which point one gets 15% off grading fees. The paid CS memberships also give you direct submission privileges to CCS, which you cannot get from any internet partner.
See link
http://www.cgccomics.com/MemberPortal/Login.aspx

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