CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

General discussion about CGC.
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CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Cyberslave » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:53 pm

So I am new here, but thought I would make known my current run in with CGC. If this is not proper then I am sorry, but I feel the need to make people aware of the type of company CGC is becoming. Below is a copy/paste of my recent conversation with 2 of their employees. I am in the black they are colored in order to help separate who said what.

Mr. B****,

My name is R*****. Back in July at the CapitalCity Comicon I submitted 9 books through onsite facilitators. I was given my green copy of the order with invoice 1279814. I have yet to receive my books nor had any communication (phone or email) abot any issues. I know that my books were part of the delayed group with the witness that was doing work for CBCS along with CGC. I have been in contact with a facilitator who got me some information about my books, but since he was not the facilitator that submitted them CGC will only give him so much information, and I have no issue with that.


According to him my books were sent in by a man named G****, although I do not have a last name or a contact number. My books were supposedly graded on October 16, 2014. The books that were sent in were all Signature Series and were:
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #13
Ultimate Spider-Man #13, 14
Deadpool #1, 27, 30
Avengers #24
Thanos Rising #1
Batman #0 (with sketch)


I have called several times and my invoice number is not on file but I was given your email today and told to reach out to you.

If my books are lost then I need to know. If they are stolen, I need to know. If they have not shipped out to me, I need to know.

Please let me know if you can locate anything on these items. My telephone is***-***-**** and email is  r******@gmail.com. Email is the best way to contact me since my work schedule rotates and cannot always answer the phone.



Thank you,

R



Who was the Facilitator


G**** ******


I subbed everything from G**** after that Convention. That invoice isn't in the system. I will email him asking on your behalf.


Thank you.
I spoke with A**** a while back and he said the books had been graded on 10-16.
TMNT #13 8.0SS
Ultimate Spider-man #14 9.4SS
Ultimate Spider-man #13 9.6SS
Deadpool #1 9.4SS
Avengers #24 9.2SS
Thanos Rising #1 9.4SS
Batman #0 sketch 9.4SS
Deadpool #30 9.6SS
Deadpool #27 9.2SS
He did not have any serials though, only the grades.
If that helps any.



Does A**** have the invoice number? If he gave you grades then he must know the invoice number. The one that you gave me isn't in the system however



I think he got them from G****. The only invoice I have is the one on the form I filled out at the show. Even he said the invoice was not in the system when he called to check for me.
A**** has done what he can and been trying to get with G**** and called CGC for me since I have a contact for him and not for G****.



I think I found them. There are a few invoices in the safe that G**** has to pick up on his next run to CGC.​



Would you by chance have any idea when that may be?

And thank you.



No.

Here is G**** email.

c*****@netscape.net





Hello Mr. B*****,

I emailed G**** about my books on Friday. I was not expecting a reply on Friday since it was later in the day I emailed. I also did not expect to hear back over the weekend. Today is Tuesday and I still have not heard anything, not even a reply saying he will check on it.

Here is my concern, the past 3 times I have sent anything in to be graded I have had issues.

I sent in an invoice with 3 Amazing Spider-Man #1's (Gamestop Fade Variant) only to find out one had been lost.Was I compensated for that book? No. My invoice was changed and was not charged for it, but it was still lost. A**** took care of that issue when I told him about it and more than made it right. But he should not have had to do it, it should have been CGC to accept the blame and fix the issue.

The next issue involved 2 books I sent to San Diego and had selected them to be fast tracked. I have never done fast track and thought why not since it was only 2 books. Over 3 months ager my books came in. Needless to say, I will no be doing fast track again. I will take the fee for fast track as a learning experience since my invoice went through the wash and I had no way to seek compensation for it. I just will not use that service again.

Now we come to these books. Close to six months have past. I hear nothing from CGC. I find out they have been graded for close to 2 months and sitting in a safe. I reach out to you and you provided the contact for G****. I emailed G**** but have yet to even get a reply saying he got my email.

At this point in time I feel I have been very accepting of these issues and even more than generous with waiting for my current books to come in but I am tired of waiting.

I present to you 2 options and I will be fine with either one.
Have my books sent out next day shipping with tracking so I can follow them AND refund half of my submission/grading fee.
Or
Have my books sent out next day shipping with tracking so I can follow them AND issue 6 coupons for free grading.

I am open to suggestions you may have but to have issues with all 3 of my last submissions is not acceptable. I have been very patient but my patience is at an end.

Please get back to me as soon as can.
Thank you for your time,
R*****



​I am aware that their was a death in the family. I suppose he will return your email at his convenience.



I can understand a death or other emergency, that takes priority. But why can you not handle this situation since he is obviously away and I have been left in the dark for so long?

I deal with customer service all day at my job and I can tell you this service has been atrocious. While my books may not be high dollar classics or even what many would deem slab-worthy, they are mine. How do you know that none of them were meant to be Christmas gifts?

Make this situation right and send my books out. Show you regret the delay and value my business. Let me know that you are ashamed of the bad service your company has provided me in the past and give me some form of restitution.

What I asked is not unreasonable under the current situation. I ask that you make this situation right.



If your name was on the invoice, I could send those out. However those are under his account. He paid us the grading fees and his name is on the Pick Up. In this case, I can not move unless the Dealer says so.



I can understand my position on this, so please understand mine.

I have been patient. I have tried working with another facilitator to reach out to G****, even that was a long process and he had trouble getting information. I made several phone calls to your facility. Contacting you was my final resort.

So, with that said, and no obvious support from you other than to say you found my books sitting in your safe (I gave you the book titles, grades, and even the date they were graded), for 2 months, please know that I will no longer be sending anything though to CGC unless there is no other alternative. There are other grading companies on the market, 2 of which popped up earlier this year and of those 1 is already gaining a good foothold with lower rates and MUCH fast turn around times.

I can sympathize with family emergencies, we all have them so I hold no ill will toward G**** for his lack of response lately. But that does not excuse the fact that my items have been completed for 2 months with no movement from anyone to send them out. It does not excuse your lack of cooperation in at least offering some form of restitution for the this situation especially based on my prior 2 experiences. 3 out of my last 3 submissions going bad is NOT a good record. I have texts going back to September where I was reaching out just trying to stay in the loop on these submissions. I have done what I can and been reasonable, but no more.

Rest assured that I WILL be using other services from here on out unless need dictates otherwise. $200 -$300 invoices are not huge and a LOT of people send much larger ones in, but that is a good chuck of money for me and I do not like feeling robbed. Perhaps some other party would like my money instead in the future and I will gladly pass your loss on to them.

Thank you for time sir,
R*****




I am sorry R*****, if you choose to leave. Aside from you telling me what the actual books were, there was no way for CGC to know that the books belonged to a specific customer because the "Ship To" area had the Facilitator's name there.  You can submit to other Facilitators. In most cases, Facilitators have books sent from CGC to the customer.



So you are telling me that you do not care about my business? You do not care about the business of friends who know about my situation and have even stated they will most likely not use your services in the future as well.

I understand not shipping out to someone whose name is not on the paperwork, but I have provided all the information relating to the books. When they were submitted, graded, facilitator name, even the grades. I know about my books being delayed because of the one facilitators going behind CGC and doing sidework with a competitor. 

I asked for some form of compensation which you have tactfully avoided. I have said nothing about that. But here is the deal.

I want my books. I want compensation. I want a ship date. It is not a hard thing to do. If you cannot provide that then I suggest you provide me with contact information for someone who can.



I am sorry R*****, I thought it was alright to lead you in the direction to use another CGC Facilitator. I am going to foward you to B*** our Customer Service Manager.



Hi R*****, 

I pulled your invoice and I have it in shipping just need your shipping address to mail it to you and it will be on the way to you. 

Thank you




I just spoke to one of your associates on the phone. She stated that you had talked to G**** and gotten a go ahead on shipping out my books. She said you need my address

*******************
******************



I did ask her about compensation since you have still not responded to that question. She said I would have to take that up with G****. I do not agree with that. I asked specifically about submission coupons and was told that G**** would have to handle anything.
If you truly value my business I encourage you to either:

Contact G****, or pay it yourself (CGC) and credit me back a portion of my submission fee

Or

Issue 6 free submission coupons which I know that CGC does and not the facilitators.



R*****,

B*** is the Customer Service Manager, you will have to speak with her about any compensation.
She needs the email for the address. I copied her on this email.





R*****, 

I just left you a voice mail but it case you don't get it.  I am unable to compensate anything to you as we weren't the ones to directly charge you.  We charged G**** and S***.  Any compensation would have to come from there.  We do not actually have any coupons.  The only coupons we do have are for either the premium or elite memberships.  We also have the ones that we have for Wizard World but those or for the conventions and only made for those specific conventions. 

The only thing I can offer to you is to ship these out to you via fedex overnight on us. 

Again, any kind of monetary compensation would need to come from G****.  

Please let me know ASAP if fedex overnight is ok as I need to get this invoice in the shipping room before the fedex shipments close out. 

Thank you, 




That is fine.
I will get with G**** about compensation.

Thank you.



R*****, 

Here is the tracking number via Fedex. 

 12345678901

Thank you, 




Thank you



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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby sniderwj » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:29 am

I don't know how much of it is CGC's fault... I do think this situation does bring up the point of doing something different in the way facilitators submit books for their clients. If the facilitator had a different form that said xyz books are for client #1 and abc books are for client 2 then if somthing goes wrong the clients can call CGC directly and get an idea of where their books are without having the run around.

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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby murph0 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:42 am

I find it surprising they're willing to ship these books to you. I assume they have nothing at all with your name on it? Not entirely familiar with how this whole facilitator set up works..

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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Stu_Pidman » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:46 am

I love to bash CGC, but I don't see how this is really their fault, unless they "assign" a facilitator to you. Sounds like you just got a shitty Facilitator. How did you go about choosing a facilitator, if not assigned?
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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Stu_Pidman » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:50 am

murph0 wrote:I find it surprising they're willing to ship these books to you. I assume they have nothing at all with your name on it? Not entirely familiar with how this whole facilitator set up works..


Yeah, if I were CGC I wouldn't ship them out either. Definitely wouldn't give any compensation, either.
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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Cyberslave » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:14 am

To clear a few things up.
All my books that are graded are all Signature Series. Only way to get a gold label is to have it witnessed by either a CGC employee or a CGC authorized witness. CGC is not at every show. Many of the booths you see are facilitators who are authorized to witness and submit.

In this case the event was not staffed by CGC but rather authorized witnesses and submitters. The guy I normally use was witnessing that day and not doing subs.

The only reason they shipped out is they were finally able to get in touch with the guy that sent them in and he gave them the verbal ok to ship.

I still have yet to hear from him.

They do not assign facilitators. I ended up with a dud. But as a representative of CGC I would have expected CGC to resolve the issue better.

As I said, I had one book lost after it shipped. The only reason I was ok in the end was that the guy that sent it in did a stand up thing and fixed the problem out of his own pocket even though CGC screwed up and did not own up to it.

I do agree that unless the books are on a payment type plan like Desert Winds does, each submitter should have their name on the form and not the facilitators. Your info goes on the submission form but if the facilitator chooses to refill a form and combine books to save shipping then you are out of luck. No way to know though until after the damage is done.

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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby IronMan » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:07 am

You picked a lousy facilitator. Your beef is with them, not CGC. I don't see that anything else matters and I don't see that CGC did anything wrong. It sucks to have your books in limbo so long. But it is NOT CGC's fault.

I am not a CBC signature facilitator or witness, though I am so for CBCS. There is nothing that should prevent a facilitator or authorized dealer from listing the customers address as the shipping address. Who the submitter is goes on top, who the books are shipped to down below. In MOST instances, it's hard to envision why any dealer or facilitator would have books shipped back to them. Because then they (the facilitator) would then have to ship to the customer. You can save a few $$ on combining shipping to CGC, but just not sure how you'd be money ahead having customers books shipped back to you. If I read the emails correctly though, this facilitator typically comes to CGC to pick up their books in person. If this is the case, it probably is a matter of making a bit of money on the shipping.

While there is some merit to the idea that facilitators are representatives of CGC, it becomes a slippery slope of logic when given much thought. Just how responsible is CGC for these individuals actions? What about authorized dealers? Is CGC somehow responsible for the books they handle for customers? The final answer for both is no - CGC is not responsible. Dealers and signature facilitators are independent business people. You purchase a specific service or set of services from them. You got lousy service from your facilitator, which seems to bring us back to square one.
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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby murph0 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:50 pm

Cyberslave wrote:As I said, I had one book lost after it shipped. The only reason I was ok in the end was that the guy that sent it in did a stand up thing and fixed the problem out of his own pocket even though CGC screwed up and did not own up to it.


I still have yet to see anything that would make this look even remotely like a CGC screw up. So to answer your initial question; yes, you are in the wrong but, hey, at least you complained enough to try to weasel out a discount!

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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Cyberslave » Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:14 am

I was not trying to weasel a discount. I just wanted my stuff. I never intend to ask for anythin until they became unwilling to help me.

Also,
On the bright side of this.
I was looking at the books and saw that my TMNT v2 #13 misprint cover (signed and mini head sketch by Eastman) did not indicate the misprint cover.

No big deal if the label is missing it. I went to the CGC registry and looked the serial up. It pulls for the regular cover, not the misprint.

You would think that being in the safe for 2 months they may have caught that. Way to go quality control.

An email has been sent to CGC asking for a fix.


Also, I have been contacted by the facilitator. I have no issues with him. There was an emergency and he was gone. My issue is still with CGC being so unwilling to help me get my stuff.

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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Stu_Pidman » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:26 am

Cyberslave wrote:Also, I have been contacted by the facilitator. I have no issues with him. There was an emergency and he was gone. My issue is still with CGC being so unwilling to help me get my stuff.


I still don't see how this was CGC's fault or why they should give you any discount, I'd put the blame 100% on your facilitator. What's his name? The fact that CGC gave you a hard time makes me trust them even more.

If you really want to have some fun, go start a thread about this on the CGC Board in Comics General :thumbsup2:
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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Cyberslave » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:52 am

Thought about it.
But they woyuld just delete the post and maybe ban me.
They are petty over there about negatives towards them.

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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Stu_Pidman » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:29 pm

Cyberslave wrote:Thought about it.
But they would just delete the post


Nah, I don't think so. I'd think they'd let it run just because of the fact that your gripe has nothing to do with CGC.

and maybe ban me.


Not unless you have some strikes already.

They are petty over there about negatives towards them.


The fireworks wouldn't come from anybody employed by CGC :lol:
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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Superior Spider-Man » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:20 am

Stu_Pidman wrote:
Cyberslave wrote:Also, I have been contacted by the facilitator. I have no issues with him. There was an emergency and he was gone. My issue is still with CGC being so unwilling to help me get my stuff.


I still don't see how this was CGC's fault or why they should give you any discount, I'd put the blame 100% on your facilitator. What's his name? The fact that CGC gave you a hard time makes me trust them even more.

If you really want to have some fun, go start a thread about this on the CGC Board in Comics General :thumbsup2:


Wait until next Friday to do it. I want to see how many pages it gets. :lol:
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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Prophet_DNA » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:48 am

So who is the facilitator so I can avoid this person?
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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Cyberslave » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:45 am

Not gonna name or blame the facilitator. I have heard from him this past week. And as stated in the email from CGC there was a death. I do not blame him, so I won't name him.

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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby MR-SigS » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:28 am

Cyberslave wrote:Not gonna name or blame the facilitator. I have heard from him this past week. And as stated in the email from CGC there was a death. I do not blame him, so I won't name him.


And CGC did nothing wrong.
Just an unfortunate situation.

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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Stu_Pidman » Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:26 am

Cyberslave wrote:Not gonna name or blame the facilitator. I have heard from him this past week. And as stated in the email from CGC there was a death. I do not blame him, so I won't name him.


Great, now let's hear you say CGC wasn't at fault either and you don't blame them.
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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby murph0 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:25 pm

Stu_Pidman wrote:
Cyberslave wrote:Not gonna name or blame the facilitator. I have heard from him this past week. And as stated in the email from CGC there was a death. I do not blame him, so I won't name him.


Great, now let's hear you say CGC wasn't at fault either and you don't blame them.


Who published the comics you submitted? You should probably go after them next since you appear intent on blaming everyone EXCEPT the responsible party.

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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Cyberslave » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:00 pm

The fault in my opinion is the lack of cooperation within CGC to give me my books which were paid for and had been sitting at their facility for 2 months. It was not until I went from the head of one division to the head of another that things got moving.

Say what you want about it not being CGCs fault but rather mine or even the facilitator, it does not matter to me. I just wanted to make people aware of the current practices going on there so that it may act as a warning to someone thinking of submitting to them.

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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Prophet_DNA » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:26 pm

It sounds like the only thing CGC did wrong was getting their hands tied because the facilitator couldn't tell them to ship it to you instead of them. I am putting full blame on this situation on the facilitator who couldn't stay in contact with you or with CGC to handle this situation personally. I feel that is who should get blamed and his/her name should be made public so everyone can avoid this person...
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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby murph0 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:29 pm

Cyberslave wrote:I just wanted to make people aware of the current practices going on there so that it may act as a warning to someone thinking of submitting to them.


Well you certainly haven't accomplished that. Instead of giving us the name of the person who actually caused the issue, you insist on blaming a party that is not at fault. This whole thread is truly baffling but congratulations on wasting everyone's time.

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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Cyberslave » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:20 pm

I do not want to blame the facilitator in this case. As I said there had been an emergency so I don't blame him. I did not name the CGC contacts for similar reasons.

No one says you have to read or follow what happened. I simply was making known my issue, like I said before.

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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Stu_Pidman » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:38 pm

Cyberslave wrote:I do not want to blame the facilitator in this case.


You have to.

As I said there had been an emergency so I don't blame him.


So because you're so stubborn/bullheaded you'll blame CGC instead, when they had nothing to do with it? Think about it objectively, does that make any sense?

I did not name the CGC contacts for similar reasons.


CGC doesn't care if you tell us their names.

No one says you have to read or follow what happened. I simply was making known my issue, like I said before.


Well, FYI, you look like an idiot. Maybe think twice before posting stories like this is the future.
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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby Cyberslave » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:02 am

So much hate here.
Say what you want or think what you want. How am I an idiot for making known issues with CGC. I thought that maybe this place would be someplace to frequent like a few other boards but it turns out I was wrong.
If I wanted to rub shoulders with CGC fanboys and be in the center of a CGC circle jerk I would head to their boards.

I don't care if you agree or not with what I did or posted, but name calling and other attacks are just petty.

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Re: CGC headache, was I in the wrong?

Postby MR-SigS » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:11 am

I'm not going to answer flaming with flaming- you thought you were doing the hobby a service. While it's kind of you to sympathize with the facilitator's situation, CGC did exactly what they should have. It's good to hear that they stick to the rules. I'd hate to think that they'd ship books simply because someone other than the person that submitted them had pertinent information about the submission. These days that hardly proves validity by default.
I'm sure it was a pain in the butt, but it should be a relief that it would also be a pain for anyone which this rule was created to deter. Sure, your facilitator had a personal tragedy, but anytime I've been in that situation and I'm required to leave my responsibilities I make sure they're addressed before leaving. I'd let my job know, I'd let the Post Office know, and, if I were a facilitator, I'd let my clients and CGC know. Yours did not.
As I said, it's an unfortunate situation.


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